this episode:
After Dark Wrap-Up, Affleck in The Assassination of Jesse James and Affleck in Gone Baby Gone, Scariest Halloween movie moments, DVD and all the usual fare.
Unwrap the complete Show Notes by clicking on this link (WARNING - there seem to be varying degrees of spoilers in the COMMENTS section. Reader beware)…
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These are the show notes for Cinecast Episode #66
Intro music: :00 - 3:25
Opening remarks: :37 - 6:30
Toronto After Dark Wrap-Up: 6:31 - 26:54
Assassination of Jesse James: 26:55 - 52:48
Gone Baby Gone: 52:49 - 1:17:41
Tangent: 1:17:43 - 1:20:41
Kurt’s List of 5 scary movies: 1:20:42 - 1:41:14
Andrew’s Top 10 Scary movie scenes: 1:41:15 - 2:06:19
DVDs this week: 2:06:20 - 2:13:57
Closing remarks: 2:13:58 - 1:23:35
Outro music: 2:21:48 - 2:24:41
Bumper Music by “Rob Zombie” and “Neil Diamond”
KMSU 12-Hour Film Festival:
CLICK HERE for all the ticket info.
New Movie Club Podcast:
Check out our newest podcast with the guys from FilmJunk.com and Marina from MadAboutMovies.net. You can stream or download the show RIGHT HERE. This month we discuss Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai and Todd Field’s Little Children.
Be prepared! Next month (actually about a week away) we dig into Gimme Shelter and Duck You Sucker
Toronto After Dark Wrap-up:
Complete synopsis and reviews of all films HERE
Pictures from the event can be found HERE and THERE. Also a recap with awards and more photos can be found in this location.
Andrew’s choices for best films at TAD:
GOLD: Alone
SILVER: Blood Car
BRONZE: Mulberry Street
- -honorable mention: Murder Party
Razzie: Simon Says
Kurt’s favorites:
Nightmare Detective - - Kurt’s Twitch review
Mulberry Street - - Kurt’s Twitch review
Audience of One
Alejandro Jodorowsky’s boxset (including Holy Mountain)
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford:
Gone Baby Gone:
Halloween Movies:
Kurt’s List of 5 “Halloween” Movies:
1) Tale of Two Sisters
2) Something Wicked This Way Comes
3) The Fly (David Cronenberg version)
4) Carnival of Souls
5) The Sandman
Andrew’s Top 10 Scariest Film Moments: (MINOR SPOILERS)
10) Creepshow - “The Crate” & “Leslie Nielsen and the seaweed zombies”
9) Lost Highway - Robert Blake
8) 28 Days Later - in the church
7) Se7en - the room with the pine tree deoderizers
6) Twilight Zone: The Movie - John Lithgow and the creature on the plane
5) The Ring (American Version) - the quick flash of the girl in the closet
4) The Shining - The entire movie’s mood. HERE’S Ross’ post with the original trailer.
3) Invasion of the Body Snatchers
SPOILER WARNING - THIS IS THE LAST 2 MINUTES OF THE MOVIE !!!
2) Fire Walk with Me - Bob crawls out from behind the dresser:
1) Signs - Alien at child’s birthday party (the single best 5 seconds of film making in the last 10 years):
DVD Picks of the Week:
ANDREW - Day Watch:
KURT - Twin Peaks (Gold Edition):
Features:
All 29 Episodes plus the original pilot (both U.S. Network and International versions) on 10 discs
Remastered picture from the original negative with 5.1 Sound, both personally approved by David Lynch
Original broadcast 2.0 audio
Deleted Scenes
Exclusive feature length documentary: ‘Secrets from Another Place’
A Slice of Lynch (featuring David Lynch, Kyle MacLachlan, and Mädchen Amick)
Return to Twin Peaks
Interactive Map of Twin Peaks
The complete Log Lady introductions
Saturday Night Live: Kyle MacLachlan’s monologue and the Twin Peaks comedy sketch
Julee Cruise music video: “Falling”
On-air promos, TV spots, production documents, rare photos
random stuff:
Twitch-o-meter
Eyes Wide Shut (IMDb)
new Kubrick Boxset
Homework:
Watch The Sandman (above) and then rent or get a hold of Carnival of Souls
Comments or questions?
Leave comments by clicking on the comments below - you can even leave AUDIO comments!
feedback@moviepatron.com (general)
andrew@moviepatron.com
kurt@moviepatron.com
- - Kurt’s BLOG - this week’s screener: Eyes Wide Shut
Fidelio
Still working on the show but a few comments to get started:
- Never seen any Jodorowsky. Going to have to fix that.
- I’m going to have to search out some of the TAD flicks on DVD, especially “Murder Party” after I heard your review. I’m intrigued particularly because the trailer is apparently so deceiving.
- It’s taken me 3 weeks of cringing that it would disappear from my local screens but I’m finally getting around to seeing “The Assassination…” tomorrow and I’m ecstatic. I can’t wait.
Woohoo! Less than 1/2 way in and already 2 mentions of “A Tale of Two Sisters”. Saw this at 2004’s VIFF with a full house and I was in pain when I waled out - sore muscles from holding the seat so freaking hard. I’ve since revisited it a bunch of times with different people and man, does this still hold up. I think I need to buy this DVD.
I’m sure I’ll be back with a few more thoughts.
Yes, there is a lot to chew on this episode. I think it’s our longest ever. Goon and SnowLeopard should be happy.
Just finished “A Tale of Two Sisters” last night. Unfortunately I kept getting interrupted by different things so it was sort of disjointed. It’s a film I’ll have to watch again to really get swept up in the mood and not worry so much about the story.
I’m looking forward to checking out “The Eye” this weekend, but there is SO MUCH I have to do before I get to it (Duck You Sucker, Gimme Shelter, Lars and the Real Girl, American Gangster, Michael Clayton, plus all the personal stuff - concert on Fri, party on Sat. - why am I telling you all this I have no idea. I’ll stop writing.
now.
Marina, I recommend ordering the lavish Korean Version of A TALE OF TWO SISTERS, it’s not that expensive, and the audio quality/mixing is one of the best in my collection. And that movie is 20% image, 80% sound design!!!
Ben Aff-leck vs. Ben A Fleck. Who Will Survive?
I’ve seen the Sandman, it is quite good, especially the ending. But I dont think I hold it in the same extreme regard Kurt does. I mean, Tool’s several stop motion music videos and Sepultura’s stop motion “ratamahatta” video (both on youtube probably) actually have more atmosphere to me.
What was that word Kurt wanted the listeners to quote? Was it fidelio, meaning opera? I had never heard it before so I’m not sure if that is what kurt said. But I’ll go one futher anyway with the last word spoken on the podcast: “apartment”.
I may be suffering from podcast fatigue. Two hours and 25 minutes is a lot of time to invest in a single podcast. By the 2 hour mark I was tired from listening to one conversation for so long. I really need to upload it to my MP3 player so I can listen to it in pieces.
Well SnowLeopard, I personally didn’t think anyone would make it to the end of that particular marathon. If you were here, I’d give you a great big hero-cookie!
Oh, and anyone seeking out CARNIVAL OF SOULS should seek out the Herk Harvey directed 1962 version, not the 1998 remake…
I love how this podcast is almost as long as the running time for The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
Great show as always guys. I’ll have to track down “Carnival of Souls” this weekend.
Bugger, I can’t remember what the word was but I did love outtake at the end of the show!
FIDELIO
Oh man I just love when you guys do top lists. As you can tell I am a very “listy” type of person
Here is my top 10 scariest/creepiest/most affecting horror movie moments:
10. “….Three..Four!…” - Blade Runner
9. The last 30 minutes - Audition
8. One of the sisters dreams with the creepy woman in the blue dress moving slowly - A Tale of Two Sisters
7. The alien bursting scene - Alien
6. The man behind the restaraunt - Mulholland Drive
5. “Call me” - Lost Highway
4. The first scene with Frank - Blue Velvet
3. “Here’s Johnny!” - The Shining
2. The first attack/full appearance of The Crawlers - The Descent
1. The revalation of what is in them - Dumplings
8. One of the sisters dreams with the creepy woman in the blue dress moving slowly - A Tale of Two Sisters
Yeah, that’s a creepy scene. I just watched it for the first time the other night. Frightening.
In 5.1 that scene kicks all sort of ass, most of the work is actually done with the sound channels.
And kudos on the mention of Dumplings. That’s definitely one of my favorite horror films of all time! Chris Doyle is a genius with the cinematography in the film and Fruit Chan isn’t afraid ‘not to look away’ - plus, thematically the film has much to chew on. My kind of horror film for sure!
Kurt…..I am still shuddering at the thought of that film to this day (but for a horror film to do that to me I give it a huge thumbs up)
speaking of stop motion animation, i finally saw the 3D version of the Nightmare Before Christmas today. I’d avoided it because I thought in typical 3d fashion it would be the same movie but occasionally somnething would unnecessarily be right in your face.
it wasnt like that at all. instead it just put much of the movie into layers, some more subtle than others, that in the end made everything a lot more real and engaging. when the Mayor first appears in all his more fully realized glory i nearly shed a tear in enjoyment.
Something about the polarized glasses made me feel a little tired though, I dont know why, however if you have a chance to check out the re-release of TNBC I wholly recommend it.
I’ve been trying to take my son to see this in 3D. THE NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS was the first feature film he ever saw and he still loves this movie. The’ve released this 3 years running now and it keeps making money, so I think I’ll manage to get myself and the boy out next year! I haven’t seen a 3D film since “Space Hunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone” - that was a long time ago!
its still out there Kurt, you dont have to wait… its at the Silvercity on Dundas in Mississauga.
You know what. I think I’m going to go out this after noon actually!
Back From NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS 3D. 3D is officially pretty cool for me, although I must admit i found the viewing experience distracting because I was paying too much attention to 3D, I think this will be the case with Beowulf too. I hope not.
Anyway, it was also really cool to see such a well loved movie up on the big screen again (It had been 10 years since last time I caught Nightmare in the cinema). Seeing things on such a clean print on a massive screen made me appreciated the film even more. One think in particular that I don’t think I ever noticed before was that the ghostly dog “Zero” whose nose glows for a key Christmas-y moment in the film, well on the big screen you could actually tell his nose was a glowing jack ‘o lantern, not just an orangey-red glow. Nice. There were several others like this, I particuarly reveled in the detail in Ooogey-Boogey’s lair.
NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS 3D is still not playing around here. Bugger! I think I’m going to get screwed for another year!
It was pretty impressive that a 10 year old movie (oi The Nightmare Before Christmas is a Decade old!!) playing several days after Halloween on a Saturday matinee still had nearly a packed house (admittedly in one of the smaller screens, but full almost to the seat!
when I saw it it wasnt all that packed.
saw Gone Baby Gone, it has some amazing moments, but ultimately I think it was quite flawed. I liked the very end, but I didnt like where it ended up with Morgan Freeman. it seemed to blow much of the believability and authenticity it had spent so long building up. I mean Ed Harris’ part in the conspiracy was stretching it alone, but Freeman was too much. that i can blame on Lehane’s content.
THe constant flashbacks beating me over the head about how it came to pass, I blame on Affleck.
its too bad, because otherwise this was a very memorable movie with more great scenes than the majority of movies I’ll see this year.
Hey Goon, I sort of agree with you. I liked the end, but I also didn’t. Explanation…
*** MINOR SPOILER ***
I really liked the back and forth debate between Freeman and Affleck. I thought it was believable enough although I can see why you didn’t.
What bugged me (which was the problem with the other Affleck movie out right now) was that it went on for too long. The film should’ve ended WITHOUT us finding out what Affleck’s decision was. It would’ve been so much stronger and given us so much more to think and talk about. I realize that’s not an audience friendly decision, but take some chances!
Plus, as I said in the show, the flow of the movie is very rocky and bumpy, it isn’t smooth at all; which is fine for some films - but it didn’t work all that well for GBG and it slapped me back into reality. When a movie hits me in the face and reminds me I’m in a theater and have to check my watch, it loses me.
Still, liked the film quite a bit.
You two are crazy. The herky-jerky flow was grounded fully in the thematic-grist of the picture. And showing Affleck’s decision was precisely done to make the point of the price of integrity (similarities to THE WIRE for sure). Since The Wire is one of my favorite TV shows and GBG carries it forward in new and interesting ways, yea, I’m loving it.
I’m fine with them showing Casey’s decision and the aftermath - that with Amy Ryan’s character, you cant change people and she will continue to be a shitty mom, and he’s going to have to look out for her himself.
But really, the Freeman scene really irked me. Besides the flashbacks, I simply don’t believe Morgan Freeman’s character would do this, for various reasons.
1) we were just getting over Ed Harris’ involvement before they move on to this other massive flashback moment of reveals. too much at once.
2) Freemans character hints at why he’d do such a thing early on in the film, but that was all you really got from that character at all. His lines there were delivered with such static-ness that it was like he was reading them off of cue cards. I’d say the same about his final speech. I think it made me realize - Damn I think I don’t like Morgan Freeman anymore - he was coasting, it didnt have any soul or depth to it, it was relying on his Morgan Freeman-ness to carry the scene and it wasnt enough. Someone with a darker edge who would clearly be seen to think he was doing the right thing might have been a better casting choice, at least to me. I really really think Freeman himself botched his end.
3) on to Lehane’s writing. Perhaps the novel makes it more clear, but the way its depicted in the movie, I simply dont believe Harris and Freeman hatched that plot, that they had that level of contingency plan, yet were too stupid to think of how they could raise a kidnapped child and keep it secret. I just don’t see it happening. I’m sure there are people out there who probably do such a thing, but these are cops who are supposed to be a little smarter than that. Smart enough to pull off the kidnapping and know it would cost Freeman half his pension and his job, but not enough to think ahead to how the kid will grow up there. I mean, jeez, if Freeman is giving up his career and pension for this kid, I need a whole lot more than a couple flashbacks at the end - that character needed way more development before he was canned earlier in the film. It felt like they didnt do it for the sake of the element of surprise later and I didnt appreciate it.
fidelio!!!
I don’t disagree with you on the Morgan Freeman Coasting a bit (he’s good at it, and it works, but still). On the other hand, the script is strong, strong, strong, and what you are talking about here is suspension of disbelief which varies from person to person, so I guess I had no trouble suspending disbelief….for me it was the moral complexity of the thing….CHARACTER consistency be damned! (although I don’t think it was a character consistency thing, I’m just trying to illustrate that even if I thought it was, I’d say it was a worthy sacrifice!)
while its true i couldnt suspend disbelief, I believe I easily could have with some more ‘clues’ - as it stands it felt like it was a bit of a magic trick.
The movie went out of its way to show just how much Freeman’s character was disconnected from his detectives (props to John Ashton who should be getting more work, and his perf is destined to be outshadowed by Ed Harris’ more showy role). Freeman’s character wants the low profile because he knows the situation is/should-be hopeless.
Had no problem there, but I can see your point.
I’ll reiterate that the ending didn’t feel like the travesty, cheap trick of THE SIXTH SENSE. And besides, the trick ending is almost besides the point (for me anyway)…for me it all comes back to the moral quandries raised in American Society, and in particular urban neighborhoods and the social ills that create a house of cards which can too easily topple by A) someone doing the wrong thing and (more interestingly) B) Someone doing the RIGHT thing.
That is what makes this movie sing for me! And the crux of this lies in the encounter between Morgan Freeman’s character and Casey Afflecks with the supporing roles (Amy Adams, Titus Welliver, Ed Harris, et. al) orbiting (or rather caught in the vortex.
This is what cinema is capable, and the immediacy, and intense emotional response makes this particular story (likely) more amenable to a movie than a novel (no insult to Dennis Lehane, I’ve not read the book).
Jorge, Thanks!
Kurt is right on this point:
“the trick ending is almost besides the point (for me anyway)…for me it all comes back to the moral quandries raised in American Society, and … someone doing the wrong thing and (more interestingly) someone doing the RIGHT thing.”
This is why I liked the movie as much as I did. Without this, the film would’ve been a complete failure.
Substance over structure baby! Filmicly that is where it is at for me.
Even in this case, the structure (disjointed, muddy) is perfectly in line with the substance, and that makes things even better. This’ll easily be on an end-of-year-list for me.
“I’ll reiterate that the ending didn’t feel like the travesty, cheap trick of THE SIXTH SENSE.”
you know, i never got to see the Sixth Sense free from the knowledge of the ending, it was spoiled for me by Ebert of all people during the Oscar Preview, bastard, so I tended to watch it appreciating some of the things along the way. you could be right. I dont know.
“And besides, the trick ending is almost besides the point (for me anyway)…for me it all comes back to the moral quandries raised in American Society, and in particular urban neighborhoods and the social ills that create a house of cards which can too easily topple by A) someone doing the wrong thing and (more interestingly) B) Someone doing the RIGHT thing.”
I can see your point, and I wish I could focus only on that - like i said, by the final shot I was able to get back to that focus in the story - however I just think if the storytelling had been tighter I wouldnt have had to struggle to find my footing with the message again.
I dont think anything could change my opinion though about Freeman and Affleck’s showdown. Casey’s burst was a little too wordy heartfelt and sounded like a prepared statement. I mean when he was explaining his responsibility to the child, I got a recall of Homer Simpsons rant “…and when you watch your friend turn into a pile of Goo!, you’ll understand! forget it Marge, its Chinatown!”
To me what you think of Freeman/Affleck’s showdown I already got out of Harris/Affleck’s showdown after Ashton’s character died. Even though Harris was involved in the plot, he put out essentially the same message. I actually even there got a recall from of all movies - Hot Fuzz…
“THE GREATER GOOD”
Anyways, on a less argumentative note, whats your favorite shot in the film? Immediately I think of Monaghan jumping into the water against all that black (some nice symbolism there too). When I think of this movie, I think of that shot first more than anything. A friend of mine who saw it with me (also a listener of the show) found Monaghans character to be somewhat useless, and I agree to an extent, but she really is a counterpoint or alternate reality of Affleck’s take on things - more obviously in the ending, but in that scene of her jumping into the black, it really states the lengths she was willing to go vs him carefully standing back examining the situation… the emotional response vs more clinical rational thinking… that sort of morality play symbolism speaks to me more than the outwardly spoken confrontation.
Another key theme of the movie is the balance of emotional vs. logical/rational response. The movie makes a case for both. It’s a real grey area for the movie and people in general and I liked it that way. My favorite shot is easily the very last shot of Casey (and kid) watching TV. A perfect ending to a top notch flick!
It’s been real fun. I hope our little cinecasts get these types of lively debates going more often. And Goon, since you live just up the street from me, I’ll extend the same invitation as I did to Jay Cheel. I go to the movies at 10pm every Sunday night (except last Sunday where I watched Duck You Sucker instead), I’m going to start putting out an email in advance on what film I’m going to go see. You are more than welcome to join any time.
Cheers.
I think I need to take advantage of your screeners…
that emotional response theme is interesting because Affleck and Monaghan kind of switch back and forth throughout the movie. When they initial ly take the case its Affleck who feels its something he just needs to do, and Monaghan is the one who is stepping back and wanting to think about it.
Don’t know about “BEST” shot, but I sure liked the opening title sequences that just gave us a feel for the neighborhood and the people. I liked that.
I swear I saw the same building thats in the opening shot of Boondock Saints.
I have three big reasons for loving GBG.
1) The acting by Casey Affleck. If he doesn’t get the best actor nod for either this or Jesse James I’m going to be really ticked off.
2) There are very few movies that sit in my mind because of an emotional impact. This is one of them. Pretty much the whole night I was sitting watching movies at Toronto After Dark my thoughts were still with GBG.
3) There are also very few movies where I can’t a) figure out the twist way before or at least b) see that there is a twist coming. I was going to be happy with what I thought was a more simple solution at the end.
These are the main reasons that I really enjoyed and conside GBG one of the best movies of the year. Then when you add on the grittiness and real feeling of the run down city plus the ending shot (like Kurt said) I can’t help but love the movie.
I’ve been thinking of comparisons between GBG and American Gangster and I really think that American Gangster for all its praise really is only about half the movie that GBG is but I’m going to save real discussion of that for my podcast. I am waiting though to read/hear what Andrew and Kurt thought about American Gangster.
@John
FYI, I’m having a real hard time with my American Gangster review. I’ve written it, but it doesn’t say much on whether I liked the film or not and the reason is, I can’t decide.
It’s got a lot of positives, but there’s something about it that just doesn’t work. If I can venture a guess, I would say Kurt LOved it, but I haven’t talked to him about it yet. We’ll get to that on the show this week though.
American Gangster…er…not so much. Some great scenes in there, but it would have functioned better as a Sopranos follow up, or at least could have used an extra 45 minutes to gel all the characters and stuff together better. As it stands in the theatres, it is less than the sum of its parts…There were many scenes I loved though. Even wacked out stuff like Cuba Gooding Jr.’s superfly pimp/pusher.
There is a lot to love about Denzil Washington when he teeters between his usual charismatic and unstable. These are more of the kind of roles I’d like to see him in. but I confess to finding Russel Crowe’s plot thread the more interesting of the two. Even if Crowe’s performance is curiously detached for most of the running time.
In typical Ridley Scott fashion (post sci-fi phase anyway), it’s solid story telling, solid talent, but it ain’t no classic by a long stretch and not nearly as good as Gone Baby Gone.
At its most basic level there is just too much of been there done that with American Gangster for my tastes.
You’ve nailed it sir. On Episode 67 (which we recorded this evening), it seems we just keep coming back to that.
You know what though? It may have been nothing new really and definitely felt like we were ripped off an extra thirty or so minutes that should have been in there to flesh it out… but overall, it was a helluva solid film. Let me add that with two lesser actors in the lead role, and a less talented director behind the camera, it definitely would not have turned out this way though.
And this is WAY off topic, but I just re-watched The Godfather tonight, and Andrew, I know you like it, but aren’t as impressed by it as most people, so I have two questions:
1) How many times have you seen it?
2) How long has it been since you’ve seen it?
I’ve always felt it was a masterpiece and one of the best films I’ve ever seen, but watching it again… well, it’s the absolute pinnacle of filmmaking. I just can’t see an argument for any other stance.
Glad you were able to dig the comments of this thread out of your database Andrew. Definitely one of the better post-cinecast conversations. Kudos all for well expressed thoughts and opinions. It’s nice to have good movie conversations with y’all.